Chapter 2: Freedom is a higher Value, Question 1



Energy Enhancement                 Enlightened Texts                 Tantra                 The Tantra Vision, Vol. 2



Question 1


The first thing: There are two kinds of love. C.S. Lewis has divided love into these two kinds: 'need-love' and 'gift-love'. Abraham Maslow also divides love into two kinds. The first he calls 'deficiency-love' and the second he calls 'being-love'. The distinction is significant and has to be understood.

The 'need-love' or the 'deficiency-love' depends on the other; it is immature love. In fact it is not truly love -- it is a need. You use the other, you use the other as a means. You exploit, you manipulate, you dominate. But the other is reduced, the other is almost destroyed. And exactly the same is being done by the other. He is trying to manipulate you, to dominate you, to possess you, to use you. To use another human being is very unloving. So it only appears like love; it is a false coin. But this is what happens to almost ninety-nine per cent of people because the first lesson of love that you learn is in your childhood.

A child is born, he depends on the mother. His love towards the mother is a 'deficiency-love': he needs the mother, he cannot survive without the mother. He loves the mother because mother is his LIFE. In fact, there is no love; he will love any woman -- whosoever will protect him, whosoever will help him to survive, whosoever will fill up his need. The mother is a sort of food that he eats. It is not only milk that he gets from the mother, it is love also -- and that too is a need.

Millions of people remain childish all their lives; they never grow up. They grow in age, but they never grow in their minds; their psychology remains juvenile, immature. They are always needing love. They are hankering for it like food.

Man becomes mature the moment he starts loving rather than needing. He starts overflowing, sharing; he starts giving. The emphasis is totally different. With the first, the emphasis is on how to get more. With the second, the emphasis is on how to give, how to give more, and how to give unconditionally. This is growth, maturity, coming to you.

A mature person gives. Only a mature person can give, because only a mature person has it. Then love is not dependent. Then you can be loving whether the other is or is not. Then love is not a relationship, it is a state.

What will happen if all the disciples disappear and only I am here? Do you think there will be any change? What happens when a flower blooms in a deep forest with nobody to appreciate it, nobody to know its fragrance, nobody to pass a comment and say 'beautiful', nobody to taste its beauty, its joy, nobody to share -- what happens to the flower? It dies? It suffers? It becomes panicky? It commits suicide? It goes on blooming, it simply goes on blooming. It does not make any difference whether somebody passes by or not; it is irrelevant. It goes on spreading its fragrance to the winds. It goes on offering its joy to God, to the whole.

If I am alone, then too, I will be as loving as when I am with you. It is not you who are creating my love. If you were creating my love, then naturally, when you are gone, my love will be gone. You are not pulling my love out -- I am showering it on you: it is 'gift-love', it is 'being-love'.

And I don't really agree with C.S. Lewis and Abraham Maslow. The first love that they call 'love' is not love, it is a need. How can a need be love? Love is a luxury. It is abundance. It is having so much life that you don't know what to do with it, so you share. It is having so many songs in your heart that you have to sing them -- whether anybody listens or not is not relevant. If nobody listens, then also you will have to sing it, you will have to dance your dance.

The other can have it, the other can miss it -- but as far as you are concerned, it is flowing, it is overflowing. Rivers don't flow for you; they are flowing whether you are there or not. They don't flow for your thirst, they don't flow for your thirsty fields; they are simply flowing there. You can quench your thirst, you can miss -- that's up to you. The river was not really flowing for you, the river was just flowing. It is accidental that you can get the water for your field, it is accidental that you can get water for your needs.

A Master is a river, the disciple is accidental. The Master is flowing; you can partake, you can enjoy, you can share his being. You can be overwhelmed by him, but he is not FOR you. He is not flowing for you in particular, he is simply flowing. Remember this. And this I call mature love, real love, authentic love, true love.

When you depend on the other there is always misery. The moment you depend, you start feeling miserable, because dependence is slavery. Then you start taking revenge in subtle ways, because the person you have to depend upon becomes powerful over you. Nobody likes anybody to be powerful over them, nobody likes to be dependent; because dependence kills freedom, and love cannot flower in dependence. Love is a flower of freedom -- it needs space, it needs absolute space. The other has not to interfere with it. It is very delicate.

When you are dependent, the other will certainly dominate you, and you will try to dominate the other. That's the fight that goes on between so-called lovers; they are intimate enemies -- continuously fighting. Husbands and wives -- what are they doing? Loving is very rare; fighting is the rule, loving is an exception. And in every way they try to dominate -- even through love they try to dominate. If the husband asks the wife, the wife denies -- she is reluctant. She is very miserly: she gives, but very reluctantly; she wants you to wave your tail around her. And so is the case with the husband. When the wife is in need and asks him, the husband says that he is tired. In the office there was too much work, 'really overworked', and he would like to go to sleep.

I have read one letter written by Mulla Nasruddin to his wife. Listen to it.

To my dear, ever-loving wife,

During the past year I have tried to make love to you 365 times, an average of once per day, and the following is a list of the reasons you gave for rejecting me:

Wrong week                                11

It will wake the children                  7

It is too hot                             15

It is too cold                             3

Too tired                                 19

Too late                                  16

Too early                                  9

Pretending to sleep                       33

The window is open, neighbors might hear   3

Backache                                  16

Toothache                                  2

Headache                                   6

Not in the mood                           31

Baby restless, might cry                  18

Watched late show                         15

Mud-pack                                   8

Grease on face                             4

Too drunk                                  7

Forgot to visit chemists                  10

Visitors sleeping in the next room         7

Just had hair done                        28

'Is that all you think about?'            62

Dearest, do you think we can improve on our record during the forthcoming year?

Your ever-loving husband,

Mulla Nasruddin.

These are ways how to manipulate, how to starve, the other, how to make him more and more hungry so that he becomes more and more dependent.

Naturally, women are more diplomatic about it than men, because man is already powerful. He need not find subtle and cunning ways to be powerful, he is powerful. He manages the money -- that is his power. Muscularly, he is more strong. Down the centuries he has conditioned the mind of the woman that he is more powerful and she is not powerful. In every way he has always tried to find a woman who is in every way lesser than him. A man does not want to be married to a woman who is more educated than him, because then the power is at stake. He does not want to marry a woman who is taller than him, because a taller woman looks superior. He does not want to marry a woman who is too much of an intellectual, because then she argues, and argument can destroy power. A man does not want a woman who is very famous, because then he becomes secondary. And down the centuries man has asked for a woman who is younger than him. Why can't the wife be older than you? What is wrong? But an older woman is more experienced -- that destroys power.

So man has always asked for a lesser, in every way a lesser woman -- that's why women have lost their height. There is no reason for them to be of lesser height than men, no reason at all; they have lost their height because only the smaller woman was always chosen. By and by the thing has entered in their minds so deeply that they have lost their height. They have lost their intelligence, because an intelligent woman was not needed; an intelligent woman was a freak. You will be surprised to know that just in this century their height is increasing again. And you will be surprised... even their bones are becoming bigger, and their skeleton is becoming bigger. Just within fifty years... particularly in America. And their mind is also growing and becoming bigger than it used to be: their skull is becoming bigger.

With the idea of freedom, some deep conditioning has been destroyed. Man already has power so he need not be very clever, need not be very indirect. Women don't have power. When you don't have power, you have to be more diplomatic -- that is a substitute. The only way they can feel powerful is that they are needed, that the man is continuously in need of them.

This is not love -- this is a bargain. And they are continuously haggling over the price; it is a continuous struggle. C.S. Lewis and Abraham Maslow divide love in two. I don't divide in two. I say that the first kind of love is just a name, a pseudo coin; it is not true. Only the second kind of love is love.

Love happens only when you are mature. You become capable of loving only when you are a grown-up. When you know that love is not a need but an overflow: being-love or gift-love, then you give without any conditions.

The first kind, the so-called love, derives from a person's deep need for another, while 'gift-love' or 'being-love' flows or overflows from one mature person to another out of abundance; one is flooded with it. You have it and it starts moving around you, just as when you light a lamp, rays start spreading into the darkness. Love is a by-product of being. When you ARE, you have the aura of love around you. When you are not, you don't have that aura around you. And when you don't have that aura around you, you ask the other to give love to you. Let it be repeated: When you don't have love, you ask the other to give it to you; you are a beggar. And the other is asking you to give it to him or to her. Now, two beggars spreading their hands before each other, and both are hoping that the other has it... Naturally both feel defeated finally, and both feel cheated.

You can ask any husband and any wife, you can ask any lover: they both feel cheated; it was your projection that the other had it. If you have a wrong projection, what can the other do about it? Your projection has been broken; the other did not prove according to your projection, that's all. But the other has no obligation to prove his being according to your expectations.

And you have cheated the other... that is the feeling of the other, because the other was hoping that love would be flowing from you. You both were hoping love would be flowing from the other, and both were empty. How can love happen? At the most you can be miserable together. Before, you used to be miserable alone, separate, now you can be miserable together. And remember, whenever two persons are miserable together, it is not a simple addition, it is a multiplication.

Alone you were feeling frustrated, now together you feel frustrated. One thing is good about it in that now you can throw the responsibility on the other: the other is making you miserable -- that is the good point. You can feel at ease. 'Nothing is wrong with me... the other... What to do with such a wife -- nasty, nagging?' One has to be miserable. 'What to do with such a husband? -- ugly, a miser. 'Now you can throw the responsibility on the other; you have found a scapegoat. But misery remains, becomes multiplied.

Now this is the paradox: those who fall in love don't have any love, that's why they fall in love. And because they don't have any love, they cannot give. And one thing more: an immature person always falls in love with another immature person, because only they can understand each other's language. A mature person loves a mature person. An immature person loves an immature person.

You can go on changing your husband or your wife a thousand and one times, you will again find the same type of woman and the same misery repeated in different forms -- but the same misery repeated; it is almost the same. You can change your wife, but you are not changed. Now who is going to choose the other wife? You will choose. The choice will come out of your immaturity again. You will choose a similar type of woman again.

The basic problem of love is to first become mature, then you will find a mature partner; then immature people will not attract you at all. It is just like that. If you are twenty-five years of age, you don't fall in love with a baby two years old, you don't fall. Exactly like that. When you are a mature person psychologically, spiritually, you don't fall in love with a baby. It does not happen, it CANNOT happen. You can see that it is going to be meaningless.

In fact a mature person does not fall in love, he rises in love. The word 'fall' is not right. Only immature people fall; they stumble and fall down in love. Somehow they were managing and standing. They cannot manage and they cannot stand -- they find a woman and they are gone, they find a man and they are gone. They were always ready to fall on the ground and to creep. They don't have the backbone, the spine; they don't have that integrity to stand alone.

A mature person has the integrity to be alone. And when a mature person gives love, he gives without any strings attached to it: he simply gives. And when a mature person gives love, he feels grateful that you have accepted his love, not vice versa. He does not expect you to be thankful for it -- no, not at all, he does not even need your thanks. He thanks you for accepting his love. And when two mature persons are in love, one of the greatest paradoxes of life happens, one of the most beautiful phenomena: they are together and yet tremendously alone; they are together so much so that they are almost one. But their oneness does not destroy their individuality, in fact, it enhances it: they become more individual. Two mature persons in love help each other to become more free. There is no politics involved, no diplomacy, no effort to dominate. How can you dominate the person you love?

Just think over it. Domination is a sort of hatred, anger, enmity. How can you think of dominating a person you love? You would love to see the person totally free, independent; you will give him more individuality. That's why I call it the greatest paradox: they are together so much so that they are almost one, but still in that oneness they are individuals. Their individualities are not effaced -- they have become more enhanced. The other has enriched them as far as their freedom is concerned.

Immature people falling in love destroy each other's freedom, create a bondage, make a prison. Mature persons in love help each other to be free; they help each other to destroy all sorts of bondages. And when love flows with freedom there is beauty. When love flows with dependence there is ugliness.

Remember, freedom is a higher value than love. That's why in India, the ultimate we call MOKSHA; MOKSHA means freedom. Freedom is a higher value than love. So if love is destroying freedom, it is not of worth. Love can be dropped; freedom has to be saved: freedom is a higher value. And without freedom you can never be happy -- that is not possible. Freedom is the intrinsic desire of each man, each woman -- utter freedom, absolute freedom. So anything that becomes destructive to freedom -- one starts hating it.

Don't you hate the man you love? Don't you hate the woman you love? You hate. It is a necessary evil; you have to tolerate it. Because you cannot be alone you have to manage to be with somebody, and you have to adjust to the other's demands. You have to tolerate, you have to bear them.

Love, to be really love, has to be 'being-love', 'gift-love'. 'Being-love' means a state of love. When you have arrived home, when you have known who you are, then a love arises in your being. Then the fragrance spreads and you can give it to others. How can you give something which you don't have? To give it, the first basic requirement is to have it.

You ask: THE LOVE IN ME IS DEPENDENT ON THE OUTSIDE WORLD... Then it is not love; or if you want to play with words like C.S. Lewis and A.H. Maslow, then call it 'need-love', 'deficiency-love'. It is like calling a disease 'healthy-disease' -- it is meaningless, it is a contradiction in terms. 'Deficiency-love' is a contradiction in terms. But if you are too attached to the word 'love' it is okay, you can call it 'deficiency-love' or 'need-love'.

AT THE SAME TIME I SEE WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT BEING COMPLETE WITHIN... No, you cannot see it yet. You hear me, you understand it intellectually, but you cannot see it yet. In fact, I am speaking one language, and you understand a different language. I am shouting from one plane and you are listening at a different plane. Yes, I am using the same words as you use, but I am not like you, so how can I give those words the same meaning as you give them? Intellectually you can understand and that will be a misunderstanding: all intellectual understanding is a misunderstanding.

Let me tell you a few anecdotes.

A Frenchman, who was visiting Ireland, entered a compartment of a train, and in the carriage were two Irishmen who were commercial travellers. One of these said to the other 'And where have ye been lately?'

Came the reply 'Sure and haven't I just been to Kilmary and now I am off to Kilpatrick. What about yerself?'

To which the first replied 'I have been to Kilkenny and Kilmichael and now I am off to Kilmore.'

The Frenchman listened in amazement. 'Murdering scoundrels!' he thought, and got out at the next station.

Now listen: Kil-mary, Kil-patrick, Kil-kenny, Kil-michael and Kil-more, Kill more... the Frenchman must have got frightened. 'Murdering scoundrels!'

Something exactly like this continuously goes on happening. If I say something, you understand something else. But it is natural, I am not condemning it, I am simply making you aware of it.

There were three boys, one called Trouble, one called Manners, and one called Mindyourownbusiness. The father was a philosopher so he had given them very meaningful names. Now, it is very dangerous to give people meaningful names...

Trouble got lost, so Manners and Mindyourownbusiness went to the police station. Mindyourownbusiness said to Manners 'Now you wait here outside' and in he went.

Inside he said to the copper at the desk 'My friend's lost.'

The copper said 'What's your name?'


'Where's your manners?' said the copper.

'Outside on the doorstep.'

'Are you looking for trouble?'

'Yes, have you seen him?'

This goes on continuously. I say that until you are total within yourself, love will not flow. Of course you understand the words, but you give those words your own meaning. When I say 'unless you are total within yourself', I am not proposing a theory, I am not philosophising at all; I am simply indicating towards a fact of life. I am saying: How can you give if you don't have it? And how can you overflow when you are empty? And love is an overflow: when you have more than you need, only then you can give, hence it is a 'gift-love'.

How can you give gifts when you don't have? This you hear and you understand, but then the problem arises because the understanding is intellectual. If it has penetrated your being, if you have seen the facticity of it, then the question will not arise. Then you will forget all your dependent relationships and you will start working on your own being: clearing. cleansing, making your inner core more alert, aware; you will start working that way. And the more you start feeling that you are coming to a certain totality, the more you will find that love is growing side by side -- it is a by-product.


Then the question will not be there. But the question is there, so you have not seen the fact. You have listened to it as a theory and you have understood it, you have understood the logic of it. To understand the logic is not enough, you will have to have the taste of it.


It need not be recognised: it needs no recognition, it needs no certificates, it needs nobody to taste it. The recognition of the other is accidental, it is not essential to love; love will go on flowing. Nobody tastes it, nobody recognises it, nobody feels happy, delighted, because of it -- love will go on flowing, because in the very flow you feel tremendously blissful, you feel tremendously rejoicing. In the very flow... when your energy is flowing...

You are sitting in an empty room and the energy is flowing and filling the empty room with your love; nobody is there -- the walls will not say 'thank you' -- nobody to recognise, nobody to taste it. But that doesn't matter at all. Your energy releasing, flowing... you will feel happy. The flower is happy when the fragrance is released to the winds; whether the winds know about it or not is not the point.


I am. I am. Whether disciples are there or not -- that is irrelevant; I am not dependent on you. And my whole effort here is that you can also become independent of me.

I am here to give you freedom. I don't want to impose anything on you, I don't want to cripple you in any way; I want you just to be yourselves. And the day it happens that you are independent of me, you will be able to really love me -- not before it.

I love you. I cannot help it. It is not a question of whether I can love you or not, I simply love you. If you are not here, this Chuang Tzu Auditorium will be full of my love; it will not make any difference. These trees will still get my love, these birds will go on getting it. And even if all trees and all birds disappear, that doesn't make any difference -- the love will still be flowing. Love is, so love flows.

Love is a dynamic energy, it cannot be stagnant. If somebody partakes, good. If nobody partakes, that too is good.

What God said to Moses -- do you remember? When Moses encountered God, of course God gave him a few messages to deliver to his people. And Moses was a true Jew, he asked 'Sir, but please tell me your name! They will ask "Who has given you these messages?" They will ask God's name, so what is your name?'

And God said 'I am that I am. You go to your people and say that I AM THAT I AM says so. It is a message from I AM THAT I AM.'

It looks very absurd, but is of tremendous significance: I am that I am. God has no name, no definition, just being.


Next: Chapter 2: Freedom is a higher Value, Question 2


Energy Enhancement                 Enlightened Texts                 Tantra                 The Tantra Vision, Vol. 2



Chapter 2






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