Pythagoras, The golden verses of Pythagoras, Vol. 1 Philosophia Perennis Chapter 9: Bliss Beyond All Duality, Question 3

The third question

Question 3

YOU SAY THAT MIND IS A WRONG SPACE, AND ALSO YOU SAY THAT SCIENCE IS AN ESSENTIAL PART OF A NEW WORLD. CAN SCIENCE BE DONE WITHOUT MIND? LEASE EXPLAIN.

Werner Scholz,

THE REAL SCIENCE HAS ALWAYS BEEN DONE without mind. All that is great in science has come not through intellect but through intuition. All the great discoveries, all the great breakthroughs, have come from the beyond -- from Archimedes to Albert Einstein.

You know the story of Archimedes? The discovery happened when he was lying in his tub enjoying a hot bath, and suddenly in that relaxed state.... He was very much worried for days -- the king of the country had asked him a certain question. The king had a beautiful golden crown: he wanted to know whether it was made absolutely of gold o r if there was some mixture? And he wanted to know without the crown being destroyed.

Now this was a puzzle "How to know it? -- how much is gold and how much is some other metal?" And he tried hard; he could not sleep for nights. And there was no hope of finding the solution. But it happened.

The tub was full . When he went into the tub, some water went out of the tub. And like a flash, a lightning flash, the idea came to him that "The water going out of the tub must have something to do with my weight." And the thing clicked. "Now if we put gold into a full tub of water, some water will come out. That water will have something to do with the quantity of the gold."

And he was so thrilled. He was naked -- he forgot all about nakedness, ecstasy was so much. He rushed into the streets shouting, "Eureka! Eureka! I have found it! I have found it!"

It was an insight, not an intellectual conclusion.

Do you know Albert Einstein used to sit in the tub for hours? -- maybe just because of Archimedes. One of the great Indian intellectuals, Doctor Ram Manohar Lohia, went to see him. He related the whole story to me. He was one of the most honest politicians this country has known, and a keen observer of things, a great visionary, a genius. He was also educated in Germany so he had many friends who knew Albert Einstein. Through some common friend, the meeting was arranged.

Doctor Lohia reached exactly on time, but Albert Einstein's wife said, "You will have to wait, because he is in his bathtub and nobody knows when he will come out."

Half an hour passed, one hour passed, and Doctor Lohia asked the wife, "How long does it take?"

She said, "It is unpredictable."

Doctor Lohia asked, "What does he go on doing, sitting in the bathtub?"

The woman started laughing. She said, "He plays with soap bubbles."

"For what?" Doctor Lohia asked.

And she said, "It is when playing with soap bubbles that he has always arrived at certain insights for which he has been thinking and thinking but was failing and failing. It is always in his bathtub that insights flash into his mind."

Why in the bathtub? You are relaxed, and relaxation is the basis of meditation. You relax -- when you relax, all tensions are dropped. Hot water, and the silence of the bathroom, and your aloneness.... And now in the West, bathrooms are being made so beautiful they are almost like temples. A few people have even started making their sitting-room in the bathroom. It is so beautiful -- one can relax, one can meditate. In that meditative mood, things happen.

Now Divya is taking a few interviews here of older sannyasins who have lived with me for years. She also wanted to take an interview of Vivek, and Vivek was worried how to give it -- because she only gets ideas when she is in the bathtub. Then there is flow.

So I said, "Don't be worried -- you call Divya and tell her to sit in the bathroom. Be in the bathtub and then you start talking."

But she could not gather courage.

The bathtub has always been a great provocator. All the great scientists of the world are agreed upon it. Sometimes working for years for a certain conclusion and not arriving at it, and then one day suddenly it is there... out of nowhere, from the beyond. You cannot say it is a conclusion; it is not a conclusion at all.

Werner Scholz, you ask: YOU SAY THAT MIND IS A WRONG SPACE, AND ALSO YOU SAY THAT SCIENCE IS AN ESSENTIAL PART OF A NEW WORLD.

Yes. Science is always out of meditation, not out of mind. And whenever something is out of mind, it is not science but only technology. Technology is a poor thing; it is not the insight, but the implementation of the insight. Technology is out of the mind, because mind ITSELF is a technological device, a biological technology.

All machines are out of mind, because mind itself is a machine. But no insight ever comes out of the mind, because no computer can ever give an insight. Insights come from the beyond. Mind is just the surface of your being; insights come from the center of your being. Meditation takes you to the center.

So there is no contradiction in my statements. When I say mind is a wrong space, I mean don't get identified with the mind. Don't just become your mind -- you are more, far more than the mind. Mind is only a small mechanism in you: use it, but don't get identified with it. Just as you drive your car -- it is a mechanism, you use it -- you don't become your car. The mind is a machine inside you, but don't become identified with it, there is no need. That identification creates a wrong space.

When you start thinking, "I am the mind," then you are in a wrong space. If you know, "I am not the mind, but the master of the mind, I can use the mind," then mind is a good machine, of tremendous value. It can create great technology.

Science comes out of no-mind just as religion comes out of no-mind. The source of religion and science is not separate, it is the same source -- because both depend on breakthroughs, insights, intuitive flashes.

Technology comes out of mind, and religious technology also comes out of mind -- Yoga, mantra, yantra. Yoga means body postures which can help you to go deep inside yourself -- they are created by the mind. That is religious technology. That's why Yoga is not part of any particular religion. There can be Christian Yoga, there can be Hindu Yoga, there is certainly Buddhist Yoga, Jaina Yoga -- there can be as many Yogas as there are religions.

Yoga is just a technology. No machine is Hindu, no machine is Mohammedan. You don't go into the marketplace to purchase a Mohammedan car or a Hindu car. Machines are simply machines. Yoga is technology. Mantra is technology, it is created by the mind. In fact mantra comes from the same root as 'mind' -- both come from the Sanskrit word MAN. One branch becomes 'mind', another branch becomes 'mantra' -- both are part of the mind.

Scientific technology is created by the mind, religious technology is created by mind. All the rituals of religions -- temples, mosques, churches, prayers, scriptures -- these are all created by the mind. But the flash, the insight, Buddha sitting under the Bodhi tree.... When for the first time he became aware, totally aware, that was not anything out of mind. It was not part of mind, it was something beyond. It was something that has nothing to do with you, with your ego, with your mind, with your body. It is something pure, virgin, it is part of the eternity. In that moment when Buddha's mind was completely at rest, the beyond penetrated him. He became a god.

Of course, for seven days he remained silent. The impact was such that he could not utter a single word. And the storY says gods in heaven became very much disturbed, because it is very rare that a man becomes a Buddha, and if he remains silent then who will teach the millions of people who are blind and groping in darkness?

It is just a mythology, a beautiful story, but of significance and meaning. Those gods came, bowed down to Buddha and prayed to him, "Speak! Tell people what you have attained."

And when Buddha started speaking, then it was out of mind, then it was part of mind. The phenomenon itself had happened in silence, but then he had to use words. Those words belong to the mind.

What I know is beyond mind, what I say to you is through mind. My words are part of the mind, but my knowing is not part of the mind.

Pythagoras

VOL. 1, PHILOSOPHIA PERENNIS

Chapter-9

Bliss Beyond All Duality