Upanishads, Talks on the Isha Upanishad. I Am That Chapter 4: Surrender is of the Heart, Question 3

The third question:

Question 3

OSHO,

YOU CAN READ IN THE BIBLE THAT JESUS WARNED ABOUT OTHER MASTERS COMING IN THE FUTURE. DO YOU THINK HIS WARNINGS WERE ALSO INCLUDING YOU? YOUR MESSAGE IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM IMPORTANT PARTS OF THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS. HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT ENLIGHTENED MASTERS CAN SAY SO MANY CONTRARY THINGS?

Dieter,

ONE THING of great import has to be understood first. Jesus became enlightened only at the last moment on the cross. Hence his statements that he has made before that experience are not of an enlightened person -- close, very close, approximate, but as far as truth is concerned there is nothing like approximate truth.

This thing has not been told to Christians at all, that Jesus became enlightened at the very last moment. On the cross he became enlightened, on the cross he became a Christ.

To me the cross is important not for the same reasons as it is for Christians. To them the cross is important because Jesus was crucified, and the cross has become the symbol of crucifixion. To me that is absolutely wrong -- that is a kind of life-negation, that is worshipping death, that is making too much fuss about crucifixion.

I call Christianity "Crossianity" because it is not concerned with Christ, it is more concerned with the cross. I also love the symbol of cross, but for a totally different reason: not because of crucifixion but because Jesus became enlightened on the cross, he became aware of the immortality of his ultimate being. To me it is not crucifixion, not death, but the beginning of eternal life.

At the last moment Jesus says to God, "Have you forsaken me?" And that shows that he was still living in the mind, expecting, desiring, hoping -- even from God. There were a few expectations that at the last moment some miracle would happen. Not only the people who had gathered there were expecting a miracle looking at the sky -- that a divine hand will appear and Jesus will be raised to ultimate glory; he will be saved at the last moment -- but Jesus himself was also waiting.

He says, "Have you forsaken me?" What does it mean? It is a complaint, it is not a prayer. It is frustration, it is disappointment. And disappointment is possible only if there was some deep desire, some longing to be fulfilled. God has failed him -- he has not come to his rescue. He was hoping.

And these are the signs of an unenlightened person. These are symbolic of the ego, of the head, of the mind, of the very process of the mind.

But he was a man of great intelligence too: immediately he recognized that what he is saying is wrong, the very desire is wrong. One should not expect anything from the universe, one should not feel disappointed. one should not feel frustrated. This is not trust! This is not a love affair! This is not an absolute yes, it is a conditional yes: "You fulfill these conditions, then of course I will be grateful. But because conditions have not been fulfilled I am angry." There is anger in his voice; there is anxiety, disappointment.

But he understood the point, and immediately he corrected it. A single moment... and he is no more Jesus, he becomes Christ. Suddenly he looked at the sky and said, "Forgive me! Let thy kingdom come, let thy will be done -- not mine. Let thy will be done!"

This is surrender. He has dropped the mind, he has dropped the ego and all the expectationS. "Let thy will be done." In this egoless state he became enlightened. But unfortunately it happened at the very last moment, and he had no time left.

Buddha lived for forty years after his enlightenment, hence whatsoever he says has a totally different significance than what Jesus says in the New Testament. It is poetry, beautiful, but still he is groping in the dark, making every effort to reach to the light, but he reached to the light at the very last moment. He could not say a single word. He died enlightened, but he could not live enlightened. He died too early -- he was only thirty-three. If you understand this, then your question will be very simple.

You ask me, Dieter: YOU CAN READ IN THE BIBLE THAT JESUS WARNED ABOUT OTHER MASTERS COMING IN THE FUTURE.

That is the fear of an unenlightened person, the fear that somebody may replace him, that somebody may come and may convince people of other things. That fear is perfectly understandable in an unenlightened person, because he is jealous. There is fear that once he is gone his teaching may be destroyed. He is too much concerned about the future.

The unenlightened person lives in the past or in the future, and Jesus did both the things in the New Testament. He is talking continuously about the past; he is trying to prove that "I am the Messiah you have been waiting for. I am the man who has been predicted by the prophets of old. The Old Testament has simply prepared the way for me!" He is too much concerned about the past. He is too much concerned in convincing the Jews that he is the expected Messiah. Who cares?

People have asked me, "Buddha, we have heard, is going to come back after twenty-five centuries. Twenty-five centuries have passed. Are you the Buddha?" Why should I be? I am just myself! Why I should be the Buddha? He did his thing, I am going to do my thing. I am not anybody's carbon copy! Why should I be a Buddha? If he wants to come, that is up to him, but I am nobody's incarnation.

Hindus have asked me that "Krishna says, 'Whenever there is need I will come.' Are you that one?" I am not, absolutely not! I am just myself. If Krishna has to fulfill his promise he will come!

Jesus is too much concerned about the past. In fact, that concern brought him the whole trouble. If he had not bothered about being the Messiah Jews may not have crucified him, because then they started asking about the signs that the Messiah has to give, and then they started asking that "You have to fulfill this and you have to fulfill that -- only then we can accept you, that you are the Messiah." And then he went into unnecessary argumentation, but his whole effort was to prove that "I am the expected Messiah." This is concern for the past, and only an unenlightened person is concerned about the past.

And he is very much concerned about the future also. He warns about other Masters coming in the future. "And beware of them," he says, "because they will distract you; they will distract you from the path" -- the path that he has shown. He is making sure that no follower is taken away from the fold even when he is gone. This is too much businesslike!

And the reason is that he became enlightened at the very last moment and he had no time to correct. to change his statements. His statements were made in an unenlightened state.

That's why you find his approach towards God very childish. He calls God ABBA -- papa, daddy! There is no daddy -- daddy is dead! It is childish. It is the need of a child, because the child cannot be without the father. hence God becomes the father.

And a strange thing has happened: now Christian priests are called fathers. A monastery is defined by someone: a place where unwed fathers live They don't have any wife, they don't have any children, and they are fathers. What kind of fathers are these? But if God can be a father without a wife, then of course they can also be fathers without wife. Catholic priests being called fathers. Catholic nuns being called mothers, sisters, Mother Superiors! People who have renounced life, renounced families, are still clinging to some ideas of the family. Now God becomes the father, but the father is needed.

Jesus remained a little childish in his approach towards God. Buddha has a maturity, tremendous maturity. He is so mature that he can say there is no God. Existence is enough, more is not needed. There is no creator, creation is enough. Creation itself is divine creativity; it is the process of creativity.

This fear of Jesus simply shows the fear of a Jew businessman! He is afraid his customers may to go somebody else. H is making sure that even in the future the customers never leave the shop! He will be gone, that much is certain, sooner or later he will be gone, but he is making sure that his priests will go on dominating the world; his representatives, his popes, will go on and on always dominating the world.

The very idea to dominate the world, to change the whole world into Christianity, is in some subtle sense an ego trip, an ego number. But it is understandable from an unenlightened person; you cannot expect more than that.

And you ask me: DO YOU THINK HIS WARNINGS WERE ALSO INCLUDING YOU?

The future is absolutely unknown. Nobody knows the future; not even the enlightened person knows about the future. That is the beauty of the future: it is unpredictable. Yes, few inferences can be made, but they are only inferences.

But all the religions have tried to prove that their founders are all-knowing, omniscient. Jains say Mahavira is omniscient: he knows whole past, whole present, whole future. And that is sheer stupidity, because it is a well-known fact -- Buddha has mentioned it, they were contemporaries -- that Mahavira is known to have begged from a house where nobody had lived for years: and he was standing in front of the house with his begging bowl!

And he was told by the neighbors that, "That house is empty and has been empty for years! And you are an omniscient person -- can't you see that there is nobody in the house?" And he knows all about the future -- he does not know about this house in front of him! In fact, if people have not lived in that house for many years, even an unenlightened person will be able to infer, looking at the situation of the house -- the dust that has collected, the doors that are closed for years -- that nobody lives here. You can see easily whether people live in this house or not. Where people live the house has a different quality, aliveness; where nobody lives the house is dead.

Buddha also mentions, just jokingly, about Mahavira, that once he was walking on the road early in the morning. It was a winter morning, too much mist was there, and he stepped on the tail of a dog! And when the dog barked, then he became aware that there is a dog. And he knows all about the past and all about the future!

Nobody knows about the future or about the past. The enlightened person knows only himself, and that's enough. Knowing himself, essentially he knows everybody -- essentially, remember, not in details. Essentially he understands everybody because he knows himself. Knowing himself he knows your potential, your possibility. Knowing himself he knows that you are in darkness. Knowing himself he knows how he has reached to his light, and he can help you to reach to the same light.

But the enlightened person knows only himself and nothing more. He knows himself totally. absolutely, his whole being is full of light, but that does not mean that he knows everything about the whole existence and past and future, all. That is sheer nonsense! Because of this nonsense so many problems have arisen for religion.

The Bible talks about the earth as if it is flat. That was the problem: that in the Middle Ages the scientists who discovered for the first time that the earth is a globe, circular, round, got into trouble because they were going against the Bible, and the Bible is omniscient. How can you dare to say something against Moses, against Jesus and all the prophets? -- because they talk about the earth as flat.

The Bible thinks that the sun goes around the earth, and one can understand why, because we all see the sun moving, in the morning rising and in the evening setting. We see the arc of the sun going around: it is a common inference.

When for the first time Galileo discovered that this is wrong, this is only apparently so, it is a visual illusion, the truth is just the opposite -- the EARTH goes around the sun, not the sun around the earth -- he got into trouble. He was very old when he discovered it, seventy or more, and very ill. When his book was published he was called by the Pope. He went there, and he must have been a man of great understanding... I love that man. Many have condemned him for this same thing, but I don't condemn him. I respect him for the same thing for which he has been condemned for three hundred years or more.

The Pope asked him that, "Have you written this?"

He said, "Yes, I have written."

The Pope said, "This goes against the Bible. Are you ready to change it? Otherwise you will be killed or burned alive!"

He said, "I am perfectly ready to change it. You need not take so much trouble of burning me -- forgive me. I declare that it is the sun who goes around the earth, not The earth. But remember, my declaration will not make any change -- the earth still will go around the sun! Who bothers about Galileo?" He said, "Neither the sun will listen nor the earth will listen. But if it is offensive to you, I am perfectly ready to change it!"

People have thought that he was cowardly; I don't think so. He had a sense of humor! He was not a coward, but he was not stupid -- that much is certain. It would have been stupidity to insist for such a small thing. Why bother about it? He was not suicidal -- that much is certain. If he had been suicidal, if he had carried some idea of suicide in him, then this was a good chance to become a martyr. Then suicide takes spiritual color: one becomes a martyr, a revolutionary.

But he laughed at the whole thing like a joke and he said, "I will change it immediately -- I declare!" But he reminded the Pope that, "My declaration won't make any difference at all -- nobody listens to me."

There is the point which he made clear at the end and he corrected with a footnote. And in the footnote he wrote that. "Although I am correcting it because it goes against the Bible -- and I am the last person to disturb anybody's religion -- but the truth is the earth goes around the sun."

These people... if you try to look into the Vedas, into Gita, into the Bible, into the Koran, you will find thousand and one things which are absolutely wrong, but I can understand why they are wrong. They were writing thousands of years before, and at that time that was the general notion; they were simply talking in that way.

Even today although we know that the earth goes around the sun, our language still carries the old idea -- sunrise, sunset -- and I think it is going to remain forever; we will not change the language. What does it mean now? It means nothing! There is no sunrise and no sunset, because the sun never goes around the earth, so what do you mean by rising and setting? But the language carries the old idea because the language was created in those days.

Neither Jesus knows nor Mahavira nor Buddha nor anybody else about the future, but the followers try in every possible way to make their Master omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent! And these are all ego trips. And if the Master himself is yet unenlightened he will pretend himself.

Jesus certainly says that, "Be alert, cautious. because there will be many who will come and who will speak in such a way, in such a convincing way that you can be distracted from the right path." He is simply afraid. Otherwise, the right path should not be afraid at all.

The truth is going to win. It is not Jesus or Krishna or Buddha or Mahavira who are going to win: it is always the truth which wins. So why be worried? But to keep people imprisoned these warnings help; these warnings make people afraid.

He knew nothing about me, he cannot know. I don't know anything about the coming Masters in the world, and I will NOT make you beware of the coming Masters. I would like you to enjoy all the Masters you will find in the future. Don't miss a single opportunity. Enjoy the truth from whatsoever source it comes. The question is of being with truth, not with me. If you are with truth you are with me. Truth is nobody's possession; it is neither mine nor Christ's nor Buddha's.

In Buddha's time Buddha was the most clearcut expression of truth, that's why people were with him. In Jesus' time few people were with Jesus because they could see something beautiful in him. And this has been always so. It you are with me you are not with ME -- you are with truth. Because you feel truth being imparted, communicated, showered on you, that's why you are with me. So wherever you find truth in the future when I am not here, nourish yourself from it. Don't cling to persons. Persons are insignificant, truth is significant.

And you ask, Dieter: YOUR MESSAGE IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM IMPORTANT PARTS OF THE TEACHINGS OF]ESUS.

It is bound to be so, because two thousand years have passed. HOW I can be exactly the same as Jesus and WHY should I be? There is no need. In two thousand years much has changed: the language, the people's understanding, the people's approach. Man has become more mature. Jesus speaks in a very childish way.

Of course, the people, the Masters who will come after me will be speaking in a far more better way than I am speaking, obviously, because they would have learned more. As time passes better and better expressions will be available. But we start clinging and that creates trouble.

Jesus spoke in HIS context, I am speaking in MY context. He could not speak in the way twentieth century will understand. I cannot speak in the way that Jesus had chosen because those people are no more here for whom he was speaking. A different humanity is here; a far more mature, far more ripe humanity is here.

Man has come of age. Now to talk about God as the father is foolish; after Sigmund Freud it is foolish. Jesus had no idea of Sigmund Freud; I have lO take care of Sigmund Freud too, because Sigmund Freud will say that talk about God as father is simply a projection, and he is right. It is your longing to belong to a father figure, it is your childish desire to be dependent on somebody -- you don't want to be independent. Now after Sigmund Freud I cannot speak in the same way as Jesus spoke. But the ultimate experience is the same, the expression will be different.

What Jesus experienced at the last moment on the cross I have experienced, but that experience is of absolute silence. To bring it into language, to create methods to help others to experience it, certainly I am in a far better position than Jesus or Buddha or Mahavira. Naturally, the Masters who will follow me will be in a far better position than me. They will have a far more accurate approach towards truth, because the man is continuously growing. Man is not deteriorating, man is growing, man is reaching to higher peaks.

And you ask: HOW IT IS POSSIBLE THAT ENLIGHTENED MASTERS CAN SAY SO MANY CONTRARY THINGS?

They only APPEAR contrary -- because the language changes, expressions change, ways and methods change; otherwise they are not contrary. And a man like me is BOUND to be not only contrary to Jesus and Buddha and Mahavira: I am going to be many times contradictory to myself for the simple reason that I am trying to bring all the religions in a higher synthesis; different approaches have to be joined together. I am creating an orchestra.

Buddha is a solo flute-player. Of course when you are playing flute solo it has a consistency, but it is not that much rich as when the flute becomes part of an orchestra. Then it has a totally different kind of richness, multidimensionality. But then you have to be in tune with others; you have to be continuously alert not to fall out of step. Somebody is playing a tabla and somebody is playing the sitar and you are playing the flute; all the three have to be in harmony. And of course they are three different instruments, VERY different from each other, but to bring them into harmony can create a higher kind of music.

Jesus is a solo player, Buddha too, Mahavira too. In the past it was bound to be so because they all lived into small worlds. Buddha never went out of Bihar, just a small province of this country; Jesus was confined, Krishna was confined. Now the whole world has become a small village, a global village. You can see it -- the whole world has gathered here! Buddha was not so fortunate; he was surrounded by Biharis. Jesus was surrounded by Jews. Krishna was surrounded by Hindus. They could only be solo players; they were bound because their listeners, the people they were working with were of a certain tradition.

Now I am working with all the traditions together. Jews are here and Hindus and Mohammedans and Christians and Parsis and Sikhs and Jains and Buddhists. All traditions have gathered here. It is a unique experiment in the whole history of humanity; it has never happened in this way.

Even people who are moving into different countries are still carrying their solo instruments. For example, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, although he works in the West. But the method that he calls Transcendental Meditation is a very old Hindu method of chanting a mantra; it is neither transcendental nor meditation; it is just an old rubbish of chanting a mantra! Any word will do; you go on repeating it continuously. It creates a state of autohypnosis and nothing more. Although he is working in the West, but he is using only an autohypnotic method invented thousands of years before by the Hindus.

Now there are Zen monks working in America, there are Zen centers in America, but what they are doing there is the old method of Buddha. There are Sufis working in the West, but they are using the method invented by Jalaluddin Rumi, one thousand years old.

I am using ALL the possible methods, and when all these methods meet of course there is going to be great contradiction. If you don't understand you will see only contradictions and contradictions. If you understand then you will understand the harmony of all these instruments together.

People are doing Vipassana and doing the Sufi dancing and doing Yoga and doing Tantra and using Zen methods, zazen and other methods. And not only the old methods -- they are doing all that is happened into this century after Sigmund Freud, all the psychological methods, all the psychotherapy groups.

This is a meeting of the whole world. It is a universal religiousness that I am creating here. It is bound to be multidimensional if you understand. If you don't understand, if you still cling to a certain tradition, then it will look contradictory to you.

Upanishads

I AM THAT

Chapter-4

Surrender is of the Heart