Chapter 10: Hingle de jibity dangely ji, Question 3



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The third question:

Question 3


THE QUESTION IS FROM ANAND PREM. First thing: she says, "Historically, a lot of men seem to feel this way..." History is just bunk. And history is created by men; no woman has written history. It is male-oriented, it is male-dominated, it is male-managed. It is a false history.

Man has tried to condition woman in such a way that he can exploit her easily, and she cannot even rebel. Slaves always have to be hypnotized in such a way that they cannot rebel. Man has conditioned the woman's mind in such a way that she thinks the way man wants her to think.

You say: "Historically, a lot of men seem to feel this way..." because men are more free, they are the masters. Women have lived like slaves; they have accepted the slavery. You have to throw that slavery completely, you have to come out of it.

Just the other night I was reading that in the sixth century there was a great Christian conference of all the great Christian leaders to decide whether women have souls or not. Fortunately, they decided that women do have souls -- but only by ONE vote. It is not much of a victory. By the majority of one vote! -- just one vote less and historically you would not have any soul. It is not much, this soul.

Man has crushed the whole psychology of women. And whatsoever you see is not really the psychology of women -- it is man-made psychology, man-created psychology in women. The more free you will be, the more you will also feel the same way -- because men and women are not REALLY so different as they have been thought to be. They ARE different! Their biology is different, and, certainly, their psychology is different -- but they are not unequals. Their similarities are more than their dissimilarities.

Just think: a man eating the same thing every day gets fed up, and a woman? will she get fed up with it or not? She will also get fed up. What is the difference between the two? Boredom is as natural to man as to woman. And unless a sexual relationship evolves into a spiritual friendship, it is going to be boring.

Let it be very clear to you: a sexual relationship in itself cannot be a lasting affair, because as far as sex is concerned it is a momentary thing. Once you have made love to a woman, you are really finished with her, you are no more interested in her. Unless something more than a sexual relationship arises between you, something higher, some spiritual contact is made -- it can be made through sex, it SHOULD be made, otherwise sexual relationship is just physical -- if something spiritual, something like a spiritual marriage happens, THEN there will be no problem. Then you can stay together. And then, whether you are a man or a woman you will not think of other women or other men. It is finished -- you have found your soulmate.

But if the relationship is only physical, then the body gets tired, bored. The body needs a thrill, the body needs the new, the body needs sensation. The body is always hankering for something new.

An ATS driver, after a long journey across Salisbury Plain, arrived at her destination, a remote camp, at midnight. The Sergeant of the Guard showed her where to leave the lorry, and then said, "Where will you sleep tonight?"

The girl explained that the only thing she could do was to kip down in the cab. It was a cold night, and the Sergeant thought for a moment and said, "If you like you can have my bunk -- I'll sleep on the floor."

The offer was accepted with thanks. After the girl had turned in, she felt very sorry for the Sergeant Lying down there on the hard cold floor, and, leaning out, said, "This isn't right -- why don't you get up here and squeeze in alongside of me?"

This being done, the'sarge' said, "Well, how's it to be? Do you want to sleep single or married?"

The girl giggled and said, "I think it would be nice if we slept married, don't you?"

"Right, I'm not fussy, we'll sleep married then," he said turning his back on her and going off to sleep.

Marriage bores. That's why you see so many bored faces all around the world. Marriage is a tremendous boredom. Unless something spiritual happens in it... which is rare. So men start looking outside. Women will ALSO look outside, but they have not been free. That's why you find so many women prostitutes, but not so many male prostitutes. Yes, they exist in London I think, a few... but male prostitutes are just almost non-existent. Why?

Prostitution is a by-product of marriage, and unless marriage disappears, prostitution is going to remain -- it is a by-product. It will go only with marriage. Now, your so-called mahatmas have been trying to stop prostitution and these are the people who go on forcing marriage. And they don't see the absurdity of it! Prostitution exists BECAUSE of marriage. In animals there is no prostitution because there is no marriage. Have you ever found any animal prostituting itself? There is no problem! Why should prostitution exist at all?

That ugly thing exists because of one other ugly thing: marriage. But male prostitutes are not so many because women have not been free. They have been repressed completely. They have not been allowed to have their sexual joy even. They are not even supposed to have it -- only bad women are supposed to have sexual joy, not good women; not ladies, only women. Ladies are not supposed to have any joy -- they are far superior.

This is not real history. This is managed history this is arranged history. And if you go on for thousands of years enforcing some idea, it becomes almost real. It is not true psychology. To know the true psychology, you will have to give women total freedom -- and then see. And you will be surprised: they will be far ahead of men.

You can watch them: a man almost always goes on wearing the same grey dress -- women? every day they need a new sari. I watch their mind. If they are given total freedom, they will be far ahead of men! Men can go on; you can see -- their clothes are not very colorful. And something like fashion does not exist as far as man is concerned. What fashion? The same grey official suit, the same tie. They don't have much of a wardrobe -- but women? The whole market exists for them! They are the real consumers.

Man is the producer: woman is the consumer. Ninety percent of the things in the market exist for women. Why? They want new things more; they want new experiences, new thrills more. Maybe because their sexuality has been repressed it is a diversion of their energy -- because they cannot have a new husband, a new sari is a substitute; a new car is a substitute, a new house is a substitute. They put their energy somewhere else.... But this is not reality.

Women have been so much corrupted and destroyed that it is very difficult to decide what their real psychology is. Don't listen to history; history is an ugly record -- it is a record of long slavery. At least women should NOT listen to history; they should burn all history books! They should say that history has to be written again.

You will be surprised that when you impose a certain idea, the mind starts functioning that way. Mind starts imitating ideas. It has been a long hypnosis the woman has lived in.

But I am not saying that society should be just like animals. I am saying that sex should be a jumping-board. If your relationship is defined by sex only and it has nothing more in it, then marriage will create prostitution. But if your marriage is deeper than your body, then there is no need.

Each single human being, man or woman, is such an infinite space... you can go on exploring, go on exploring. There is no end to it. Each human being, man or woman, EACH day is so alive and so new -- new leaves coming up, new flowers blooming, a new climate, new moods -- if you love, if you are really intimate, you will never find the same old woman with you, and you will never find the same old man. Life is such a tremendous dynamism....

But you don't love! You are stuck with the body. You don't look in. You don't look at the inner sky which is constantly changing... what MORE change do you need? But you don't look at that. Of course, the body is the same. Then it loses excitement. When excitement is lost, your life becomes boring. When you become bored you start seeking help, because you are getting neurotic. Your life is a drag. You go to the psychoanalyst; in the past you used to go to the priest, now you go to the psychoanalyst -- you ask for help. Something is going wrong: you don't enjoy life, there is no delight. You start thinking of committing suicide. If you move with excitement, then you become criminals. If you stay with society, with the establishment, then you become bored. It is a great dilemma: you are not allowed to move anywhere! Between these two horns you are crushed and killed. Either live with the establishment, then you will live a bored life; or go anti-establishment, but then you look like a criminal, then you start feeling guilty.

Women have to come to absolute freedom. And with the freedom of women, man will also be free -- because you cannot be really free if you are keeping somebody as a slave. A master is a slave of the slave. Man is not really free, because he cannot be: HALF of humanity is forced to remain slaves -- how can man be free? His freedom is just so-so, just superficial. With the freedom of women, man will also be free.

And with freedom there is a possibility to enter into a deeper relationship -- and if that DOESN'T happen then there is no need to remain bored, then there is no need to remain clinging to each other.

A man who had felt unwell for some time went to his doctor and asked for a check-up. The doctor gave him a going over and said, "Either you pack up smoking, drinking and sex, or you'll be dead in twelve months."

After a while the man went back and said, "Look, I'm so bloody miserable I might just as well be dead -- PLEASE can I smoke just a little?"

"Very well, just five filter-tips a day," said the medico, who was a very abrupt man.

Some weeks later the man was back again: "Look here, I do miss my pint, please....?'

"Alright, two halves a day then, and no spirits."

Time went by, and the patient approached the doctor for the third time... seeing the man, the doctor said, "Yes, yes, but only with your wife -- no excitement!"

Life needs excitement. If you cannot allow it to have spiritual excitement, it will need physical excitement. Give it a higher excitement and the lower excitements disappear; they are not needed. Don't give it a higher excitement and the lower is the only available excitement.

Man has tried to keep himself open. Jung is tricky, and what Jung is saying is the old crap. This has always been said by man, that a man needs two women at least: one, the mother type, the wife type; another, the mistress, the inspiration. If man needs two women, then women also need two men: the father type and the Don Juan.

But what I am trying to say is that even in the twentieth century men like Freud and Jung are still as male chauvinistic as ever -- not much difference. Women have to think for themselves; men cannot be of much help. They have to come to their own understanding -- and NOW there is an opportunity for them to come to their own understanding.

BUT ANAND PREM'S QUESTION is not basically about women: it is about her own mind. She is a clinging type, and that clinging is also because of the historical conditioning. The woman clings too much because she is afraid about insecurity, about safety, about finance, about this and that. She is so much afraid. She has been made afraid! That is the trick of the man, to make the woman afraid. When the woman is afraid she can be easily dominated. You cannot dominate somebody who is not afraid. So create fear!

First man creates fear in women about their virginity -- he creates great fear that virginity is something very valuable. Down the centuries he has created that fear, so every girl is afraid: if she loses her virginity, all is lost. Through that fear she cannot relate to people, she cannot make friendships, she cannot move in freedom. She cannot have a few experiences before she decides whom to choose. The fear... she has to be virgin.

Look at the distinction: they have not told the boys that "you have to be virgin" -- they say "boys are boys." And girls are not girls? Girls are girls too! Why are boys boys? Virginity is not asked from the boys. They are given freedom.

Through virginity, a great conditioning. And once a woman becomes too much afraid of losing her virginity -- think: up to the twentieth year of age, twenty years she has been protecting her virginity, twenty years of conditioning -- she will become frigid. Then she will never enjoy! Then she will never be able to flow in love; she will never have any orgasm. Down the centuries, millions of women have not had any orgasm they don't know what orgasm is. They simply suffer. They are simply means for the man. This a great degradation.

But if virginity is too important, and there is twenty years of conditioning that one has to be a virgin and always on guard, then it will be very difficult to drop that habit. How can you suddenly drop it after twenty years of conditioning? Just one day the honeymoon comes and you have to drop it -- how can you drop it? You can only pretend -- but deep down you think your husband a criminal, a beast, an ugly man, because he is doing something which you know is a sin. You never allowed any other man -- love is sin, and this man is doing that!

No wife is ever capable of forgiving the husband. In fact, in India particularly, no woman respects the husband, cannot. Shows all respect, but CANNOT respect -- deep down she hates the man because this is the man who is dragging her into sin. How can you respect the husband when he is the sinner? Without him you were a virgin; with him you have fallen. That's why the society teaches too much: Respect the husband! because the society knows, naturally the woman will not be able to respect him, so respect has to be forced... Respect the husband! Because if things go naturally, then she will HATE this man. This is the man who is preparing hell for her.

And out of this sin are born children -- how can you love your children? Born out of sin, you will hate them too, deep down in the unconscious. The very presence of the children will remind you again and again of the sin that you have committed!

The whole society has suffered because of this foolishness. Love is virtue, not sin. And to be capable of more love, is to be more virtuous. To be capable of enjoying love is a basic quality of a religious man -- these are my definitions.

Anand Prem is a great clinger -- and she thinks that whatsoever is true about her is true about all women? In a way she is right, because all other women have been conditioned in the same way. But it is not truth -- neither about other women nor about you, Anand Prem, it is not truth.

Become capable of being individuals, then you will have some taste of freedom. A woman is never thought of as an individual. When she is small, she is a daughter. When she is young, she is a wife. When she becomes a little older, she is a mother; still older, she is a grandmother -- but she is never herself. Sometimes a daughter, sometimes a wife, sometimes a mother, sometimes a grandmother -- but NEVER herself. Always in relation to somebody else!

Individuality is needed as a basic requirement. A woman is a woman! her being a daughter is secondary; her being a wife is secondary; her being a mother is secondary. A woman is a woman -- her womanhood is primary. And when women start becoming individuals, there will be a totally different world -- more beautiful, more joyous.

Now there is boredom and jealousy, nothing else. You are bored with the woman, the woman is bored with you. You are jealous, she is jealous. Why does this jealousy come as a shadow of boredom? Boredom brings it. Too many people come to me and they want not to be jealous, but they don't understand why jealousy comes, they don't understand the mechanism of it.

Listen: when you are bored with a woman, you know deep down that she must be bored with you too. That's natural! If she is bored with you, then she must be looking for some other man somewhere -- the milkman, the postman, the driver -- whosoever is available, she must be looking somewhere. You know when you are bored, you start looking at other women. So you know! this is a natural inference. Jealousy arises. So you become jealous -- she must be looking. Then you start finding ways to see whether she is looking or not. And, naturally, how can she avoid looking? There are so many men -- and she is bored with you. It is her life; her whole life is at stake.

The woman is jealous; she knows that the husband is bored. Now he is not so delighted as he used to be; now he does not come running home with joy; now he simply tolerates her. In fact, he is more interested in his newspaper than he is interested in her. He immediately gets irritated; small things and he becomes very, very angry and rough. All that softness, that honeymoon softness is gone. She knows he is bored. He is no more interested in her.

Then suddenly, certainly she knows, her instinct knows, he must be becoming interested somewhere else -- jealousy. Then if some day he comes home happy, she is worried: he must have been with some woman, otherwise why is he looking so happy? If he goes for a holiday, or if he goes for some business trip, she is worried. If he starts going too much on business trips, it becomes more certain... jealousy poisons the relationship.

But it is part of boredom! If you are not bored with the person, you will not be jealous because you will not have that idea in your mind. It is not, in fact, because of the OTHER'S interest in the other: it is because of YOUR interest in the other that you become jealous, that jealousy arises.

Of course, women are more jealous because they are less free. Their boredom is more fixed. They know the man goes out; he has more possibilities, opportunities. They are encaged in the home, imprisoned in the home with the kids; it is difficult for them to have so much freedom. They feel jealous. The more they feel jealous, the more they cling. Fear arises. If the man leaves them, what will happen? A slave becomes MORE attached to his safety than to his freedom. A slave becomes MORE attached to his security than to his freedom. That's what has happened. It has nothing to do with feminine psychology, Prem. Yes, I understand: it has happened to woman; it is an ugly phenomenon. It has to be dropped. It should not be so in the future if men and women become a little more aware. And BOTH are living in hell!

The Squire and his Lady were Chief Patrons of the Agricultural Show, and after the opening ceremony they dutifully walked round, mixing with the tenants and peasantry, and looking at the exhibits.

But his Lordship spent so much time in the beer tent that her Ladyship wandered off to admire the prize bull. Never was a male animal so splendidly equipped.

"My, but that's a fine beast you have there, Giles," she said to the yokel in charge.

"Yes, my Lady, he be champion, and father o'champions."

"Go on, tell me about him."

"Well, M'am, this here bull went to stud three hundred times last year."

"Indeed? Well, go over to his Lordship will you, my good fellow, and tell him there's a bull here went to stud three hundred times in one year, will you."

Giles dutifully trotted up to Squire and gave the message....

"Very interesting indeed," was his comment, "always the same cow, I presume?"

"Oh, no indeed, Sir, three hundred different cows."

"Aha, go and tell her Ladyship that, will you."

Animals are so happy... because they don't have any institution to live in. And, mind you, I am not against marriage: I am for a higher marriage. I am against THIS marriage because this marriage has created prostitution. I am for a higher marriage.

If you can find the intimacy, spiritual intimacy with a man or woman, then there will be a NATURAL togetherness no law is needed to enforce it. Then there will be a spontaneous joy in being together. Till it lasts, good; when it disappears, there is no point in being together -- no point at all! Then you are crushing each other, killing each other; then you are either a masochist or a sadist -- you are neurotic.

If MY idea some day prevails -- which seems very difficult, because man has become so accustomed to dead roles that he has forgotten how to live -- if some day LIFE prevails and man becomes courageous enough to live dangerously, then there will be real marriages, then you will find many soulmates together. There will be no prostitution.

Of course, the larger part of humanity will go on changing partners, but nothing is wrong in it. The only problem that arises again and again in the minds of men and women is: What about kids? That is not a big problem. My conception is that of commune, not of a family. Families have to disappear -- communes should exist.

For example, this is a commune. Kids should belong to the commune, and the commune should take care of the kids. The mother should be known, who the mother is, but the father should not be known -- there is no need. That was the original state of humanity: matriarchal. Then society became patriarchal: father became important. And with the father came a thousand and one illnesses. The greatest illness has been private property; it came with father. And the society will suffer from private property until father disappears.

A commune -- where kids belong to the commune, when the commune can take care of them. The mother will look after them, but the mother can trust one thing: that she can move from one man to another -- there is no problem in it. The kids should be taken care of; even if she dies, the commune is there.

And, when the property belongs to the commune and not to any individual, there will be real communism. Even in Soviet Russia, real communism does not exist. It cannot exist with the father; it is impossible. Private property came with the family, with the nuclear family -- father, mother, kids -- then private property came. Private property can go only when this nuclear family disappears and a totally new concept of commune arrives. It is possible now. The world has come to that state of consciousness where communes can exist, and THROUGH communes, communism -- not otherwise. Not that communism comes first -- it is not possible. If communism comes first, it will bring only dictatorship, it will bring only an ugly society as it has happened in Soviet Russia or is happening in China.

First,.let there be communal life as far as sex is concerned, then property will disappear. Property is part of sexual possession. When you possess a woman, you possess property; when you possess a man, you possess property -- you have to possess property. When you don't possess any human being, who bothers to possess property? Then property is to be used; there is no need to possess. And it is easier to use it without possessing it, because people who possess cannot use it -- they are always afraid, they are miserly. Property can be used more freely.

But first the family has to disappear.

I am not saying that all families will disappear. Only spiritual families will remain; non-spiritual families will disappear. But it is good, because those people who are not spiritual enough, why should they be forced to remain bored? Why should they be forced to remain in a relationship which does not lead to any joy? Why? This is criminal.


Next: Chapter 10: Hingle de jibity dangely ji, Question 4


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Chapter 10






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